Ep 37: Travis Mayer's Secrets to Performance & Recovery

[00:00:00] Travis Mayer: So yeah, so I've been competing at the highest level for kind of almost 13 years now, which is crazy to think it's been.

[00:00:07] Michael Kummer: But it's very easy to think whenever you're not redlining, you're weak.

[00:00:12] Travis Mayer: All the annoying and time consuming things that I did at the beginning of my career that no one ever saw. Those are the things that are paying off, of course.

[00:00:20] Michael Kummer: I'd rather do this than 20 minutes of mobility work.

[00:00:24] Travis Mayer: Without being mean, I'm like, you don't get paid to do this. Like, you want to be healthy. Work

[00:00:28] Michael Kummer: on your mobility, work on your recovery, and you will be better.

[00:00:31] Travis Mayer: One, having a good coach that knows what they're doing. Two, listening to my body.

[00:00:35] Michael Kummer: I've noticed that my mental resilience and my mental strength has improved by being in the cold.

[00:00:40] Travis Mayer: Now you're thinking like, Oh, I always get a trophy, whether I lose or win. And that's just not right. I've used Aidsleep for a few years now.

[00:00:48] Michael Kummer: If you get uncomfortable a lot, then you're actually more comfortable overall.

[00:00:51] Travis Mayer: Yeah, I think. Yeah, that's a good question. I think, of course, at the end of the day, it's going to come down to whatever the person's goal is.

[00:00:57] You're

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[00:01:51] And here is something to get excited about. Use code PRIMALSHIFT at checkout for an exclusive 15 percent off on your first purchase. Learn more at shop. [00:02:00] michaelkummer. com or check out the show notes. Today I have a very special guest on the show, 8x CrossFit Games athlete, Travis Mayer. He is the owner of United Performance, a CrossFit gym where my wife and I work out of, and he's an incredibly good person and someone who has figured out how to perform on an incredibly high level for almost a decade.

[00:02:23] Well, he's been doing CrossFit probably for a decade, but he participated in the CrossFit Games every year. eight times, perform incredibly well every single time. And so in today's episode, we're going to talk about recovery, you know, what you have to do to perform at such a high level and how that translates into regular workouts, you know, for the ones that you and I do, you know, if we go to the gym, how can, what can we do not only in the gym, but also outside of the gym to avoid injury, to perform at the highest level possible, to improve our fitness and anything in between.

[00:02:53] So I'm very excited. Welcome with me, Travis Mayer. All right, Travis. Hey, thanks so much for making the time. I know you're super busy [00:03:00] preparing for Wadapalooza and raising a lot of kids.

[00:03:04] Travis Mayer: Thanks for having me on. I'm excited. It's always fun to do these things and reach out and have conversations with different people about different topics and things that always happen inside the gym versus outside the gym.

[00:03:15] So it's always fun. I'm excited.

[00:03:17] Michael Kummer: Yeah, I appreciate it. So for today's episode, I'd like to focus on, first of all, here, what have you been doing for the past decade or so? to perform at such a high level and not necessarily, you know, about your training, what do you do in the gym, what do you work out, you know, how much you lift.

[00:03:33] I'd like to hear how often you work out, how many hours you actually spend improving your performance, but then equally important or even more important, what do you do when you don't work out? What are all of the things that you do outside of the gym, including nutrition? sleep, active recovery, I don't know, cold plunging, sauna bathing, I don't know, what do you have in your arsenal that you do to be able to hit it again the next day?

[00:03:58] Travis Mayer: Yeah, so yeah, so I've been [00:04:00] competing at the highest level for kind of almost 13 years now, which is crazy to think it's been that long. From when I first got into the space to when the sport is now and how it's evolved, it's all changed. When I first got into it, I was around 21. I didn't have any kids, like all I did was just work out and run a gym.

[00:04:19] So very easy in that standpoint, in regard of you don't have other obligations besides go work out. And then at that age, you get the CrossFit bug and you're drinking all the Kool Aid where you're in the gym 24, seven, trying to figure out how to do everything. So from an early, process. I've always had a coach, so I've always reached out to somebody and always had somebody guide me from the beginning.

[00:04:42] Like, I always had a good idea of what I needed to do, but it was, it's just easier when someone else takes that for you and is able to run with it. So, I've been with Max for about 11 years, who owns Training Think Tank. Part of Our goal going into it was like, we don't want to be a one hit [00:05:00] wonder. We want to be able to stay around in the sport for as long as we potentially can.

[00:05:04] And I think now having four kids, fast forward 11 years, still competing at the highest level, still competing with the young guys and giving them a run for their money. Like, It's speaking volumes for the, all the annoying and time consuming things that I did at the beginning of my career that no one ever saw.

[00:05:22] Those are the things that are paying off, of course, now, keeping me healthy, allowing me to continue down this path of trying to be the best that I possibly can, and a lot of that is due to, one, having a good coach that knows what they're doing. To listening to my body. I'm very in tune with when things feel off.

[00:05:40] If I feel like I'm getting run down or sick, like there's a difference between I've just pushed it really hard in the gym and I'm tired. Or there's a difference between like my body and fatigue level setting in is it's too much. And so I've always never had a problem with just taking the day off if I have that.

[00:05:57] I think a lot of times people think it's almost like a [00:06:00] weakness when it's because you see all these things that everybody puts out like you need to be in the gym doing more I'm up at 3am doing extra like our sports just different right like you're beating your body into the ground over and over multiple times a day so you you have to take into consideration the things that are going to make you better and recovery is like one of the number one important things that you You need to do to get back to the next day training.

[00:06:23] So when I have this,

[00:06:24] Michael Kummer: when I was sorry to interrupt, but when I, one of the, one of the very distinct moments of my earlier in a track and field career was when I learned to overcome my mental weakness and continue pushing beyond what I thought was possible. And. I think that's a very important skill to learn, but it's very easy to think whenever you're not redlining, you're weak.

[00:06:50] Yeah, for sure. And being able to say, you know what? How was that? How did you manage to, to not get into that mindset, if I'm not in the gym, I'm sandbagging? [00:07:00]

[00:07:00] Travis Mayer: I think a lot of it was experience. I did do those times where, like, I would redline, and then I would put myself in a deeper hole, and I would be sick longer, it would take me longer to recover.

[00:07:11] So like, I did do those things, but I learned from them very quickly of, look, it's not always, every single day is not going to be 110%. Like, you're not always going to feel great. Your joints aren't always going to feel good. But it was like, I always knew when the time was right to push past that boundary.

[00:07:28] And then other times when it was like, look, we're eight weeks, 12 weeks out from a competition. You have plenty of time. Just take the day off. Like. It's okay. And then there's other times where I've even gone to Max and I was like, look, I don't know if I'm just being soft right now or if I need to actually take the day.

[00:07:45] And so then we have a conversation about what's actually happening. And sometimes that leads to, Hey, just take the full day off. Let's just give it a day or two and then you'll probably be fine. Or it's, hey, let's just lower the intensity and volume that you're doing today. Let's do some zone 2 work, [00:08:00] sauna, cold plunge, do some recovery work, and spend the time doing that to get your body back and ready.

[00:08:05] And then usually, the next day I come back in, I feel 100%, right? Because you just have to be in tune with those things. And I think a lot of times, even from general population members and people from the gym, right? They're like, Oh, I have this nagging injury. And it's, Hey, why don't you try this substitution or modify this or do this?

[00:08:23] And then their first response, no, I don't want to. And I'm like, it's hard because I'm like, without being mean, I'm like, you don't get paid to do this. Like you want to be healthy. You want to, at least in my eyes, I want to move better, feel better and live a longer, healthier life. So I think if you're trying to just say, Oh, I need to do more chest to bar when my shoulder is bothering me, I'm like, I just gave you like seven modifications, like, just do those, and like, give it a day or two and you'll feel better, and I think so many people get caught up in, if they're not doing exactly what it's prescribed as, like, they're not accomplishing something, and I think sometimes that's the OG concept of [00:09:00] CrossFit, right?

[00:09:01] Like, of pushing yourself to a certain point, but it's, that's just not a smart thing to do. training methodology, actually longevity and health, right? Like at the end of the day, if you're beat up and broken, you can't go into the gym and do something. And then it leads to more problems because you're overcompensating on the other side.

[00:09:17] Then you mess up the other side. And this has been going on for six months. I'm like, why didn't you say something? But I think a lot of it from even my own personal self is just, I exposed myself to it at some point. And I learned pretty quickly that I don't like having to adjust that many things. And if that's like just making the smart adjustment with training or recovery, then I add those things into

[00:09:39] it.

[00:09:40] Michael Kummer: Yeah. I think that's a very important message because you obviously in the gym every single day. And I'm usually part of the 830 crowd and I see it. There are a couple of very competitive individuals, me included. And, but you can tell sometimes I'm like, you shouldn't be, maybe today you shouldn't be doing this.

[00:09:55] I I've fortunately, I'm not old enough that I'm like, I'm certainly not competing in [00:10:00] any shape or form anymore. I'm over 40. I just want to live pain free. And be as strong as I possibly can and as fit as I possibly can. And sometimes I, during the med con, I do the ladies weight because I feel like today is not the day that I want to push it.

[00:10:13] Or it's maybe something that I'm a not very good at anyway, and then I have an injury or something is tweaking. There is no need of maxing out my push press or my strict press. If it increases the risk of injury, I'd rather do something else and be happy at the end of the day, go back and be pain free and do it the next day again.

[00:10:29] Travis Mayer: Yeah. I think that's just the big thing that a lot of people miss out on is I don't know what it is like psychologically that challenges people so hard to that. But right. It's just like this barrier that's causing people to. want to almost push through and be like, I am tough. I can fight through it. But at the same time, there's a time for that.

[00:10:47] But if my objective is to just lose some weight or get fitter and get better, like it's not on an everyday basis, right? That's why there's progression. that we run. That's why there's Thursdays [00:11:00] have a little bit more conditioning and cardio. That's not the fun stuff that people want, but I'm like, yeah, that's the stuff that you probably all just need.

[00:11:06] You don't even need 80 percent of this. Like you need the zone to longer endurance, the stuff that's like not glamorous, but right. Then we don't have any members. If you program that way, it's just finding a balance of what keeps people excited. And it's just, I'd say like part on us, right? Like of teaching everybody the smart ways to go about it and learn and understand.

[00:11:28] But I think you also, everybody does better when they learn for themselves and things happen to them. They're like, Oh, I guess I need to spend more time doing mobility and. I used to spend three hours a day, at least on mobility and positional work. When I first got into space, like how could I improve my squat?

[00:11:46] All right. How can I improve my T spine? Like, how can I get my arms overhead in a better position? And it was every day, every single day, I was always trying something. And that was something that me and Max worked really hard on. And now I'm super grateful for it that I still [00:12:00] move just, if not better than when I started my positions overhead, my mechanics are better, and then it's just helping.

[00:12:06] But. It's not an overnight fix and it's something that you have to actually work on. So I think for those wanting to improve mobility or positional work, 99 percent of people are sitting down watching TV at the middle, at the end of the day, right? Watching something for an hour, Netflix, whatever it is, the simplest thing, grab a lacrosse ball, grab a foam roller.

[00:12:26] You can couch stretch. It's meant for a couch, right? It's in the name. Like things like that, that you can do just sitting there. And I think so many people think they have to be in the gym or they have to have this new tool. And it's you can put your body through certain positions by just very simple task.

[00:12:42] Or even if you don't have something, you can use a towel, right? There's a lot of different things that you can actually get creative with, but a lot of people just don't want that, right? Like they want the magic pill that's going to Fix my mobility and my strength numbers and give me a third lung for conditioning and all these things I'm like, it's the one thing you have to like [00:13:00] always constantly strive and work on

[00:13:02] Michael Kummer: Yeah, and I can you know, I can appreciate that, you know stretching and that is You know, if I have a choice between, you know, going to the gym and like doing a workout, like we did on, on Monday, three rounds or whatever, there are some running, there is some, you know, what have you, you know, I'd rather do this than 20 minutes of mobility work.

[00:13:19] And it's just, there is excitement you see, and especially if you're in a group, it's always more fun than doing the stretching by yourself at home. But as you said, there are certain things while watching TV, get your leg up, stretch out your hamstring or whatever. I started. Because I'm, my, my mobility is just awful.

[00:13:37] And I started like brushing my teeth in a deep squat. I just squat in the morning and brush my teeth. And I'm like, just squatting for two minutes with my poor mobility is actually effort. It's not that I can just sit there and relax. No, I have to like balance and lean forward to, otherwise I would fall back because I'm, I suck so much at doing it.

[00:13:54] But those are the things,

[00:13:55] Travis Mayer: right? Like. It gets better overnight, but like little [00:14:00] things that he tells us what makes the difference. It's just, do you want to do it, right? Do you want to get better at this? Do you want to improve? And at the end of the day, it's going to come down to whatever someone's goal and objective actually is.

[00:14:11] Michael Kummer: But I would say that if people are so competitive, they want to do better. They want to beat the next guy. Here's the thing, do what you just said, work on your mobility, work on your recovery. and you will be better. Obviously, I'm nowhere near where you are. People always come to me and say, how is it possible you only come to the gym twice a week and you still beat every, or not everyone, a certain percentage of

[00:14:29] Travis Mayer: people I work out with.

[00:14:30] And a lot of just, you're setting top scores, right? Like in people, how are you doing that? And there's a lot of other things that go into it than just like, a lot of

[00:14:38] Michael Kummer: it's not that one hour in the gym.

[00:14:39] Travis Mayer: No. Yeah. And a lot of it's like the lifestyle that you're living. outside of the gym is building mental toughness, getting used to things that are making you uncomfortable.

[00:14:49] And then you get into these situations like with CrossFit, right? Like it's an uncomfortable workout, right? Like it's not this, Oh, I'm sitting on elliptical for 20 minutes at like [00:15:00] zone two and like comfortable. It's no, this is, you're suffering to a degree and it's uncomfortable for a lot of people to be in that.

[00:15:07] And a lot of, The separation, I feel like from even semi final to games athlete, like it's all up here. So what's happening between the ears. That's the difference of a lot of that. Like some of these people will hit bigger numbers. They might be able to hold on to the bar for bigger sets, but like. The end of the day, it's what I believe up here versus what you believe.

[00:15:25] And if you think you're going to need to drop the wall ball at 30, I'm going to try to get to 80 before I drop. And it's, it's those little things of being able to like shut the mind off, accept that it's going to be uncomfortable. And I know the longest workouts we're doing probably in the gym are 20 to 35 minutes maximal, right?

[00:15:42] They're not hours. And it's get comfortable suffering through that. And then you feel so much better when you're done. And that feeling is. It's incredible when you are done with that. It's, man, in the middle of that was so terrible. I hated that. But when you're done, you're like, man, that's pretty good. But then you feel like you accomplished something.

[00:15:59] [00:16:00] And then you feel like you're improving towards something. But I think a lot of times people just don't put themselves in discomfort anymore.

[00:16:07] Michael Kummer: I was about to say, I wanted to ask you because for me personally, I've noticed that my mental resilience and my mental strength has improved by being in the cold by accepting.

[00:16:17] Even if it's not 30 minutes, my longest was I think 15 minutes in the ice water, but just being in there and accepting that it sucks really bad and that you can still do it. You're not dying. Nothing bad is gonna happen. It's just uncomfortable. And for me, cold bludgeoning has helped a lot. Be in that zone, be in that acceptance zone and just continue.

[00:16:40] How about you? I think it's the same thing.

[00:16:41] Travis Mayer: Oh, for sure. I think it just gives you, even if you're doing a cold shower, right? Like you don't need a 6, 000 tub for a lot of people, right? That's a very expensive thing unless you like really want to take a deep dive. There's other alternatives for if you're just wanting like a, they have these inflatable ones now.

[00:16:58] Like there's so many [00:17:00] options for cold plunge that even if you're like, I don't have access to that or like financials aren't there. That's fine. Just hop in the shower first thing in the morning for 30 seconds, put it on cold, stand there, right? Like those little details every single day start to build up the mental toughness without really thinking about it.

[00:17:17] You first get in, you're like, it's just the natural instinct. And then after you've done it for a month, you're like, Oh, you just hop right in. You're like, Oh, okay. That's not bad. Right. But it's not like the temperature's changing. You're just getting more. Acclimated to the feelings and then mentally you're in a better headspace, you're getting more comfortable with the discomfort.

[00:17:36] And then I think that translates into everything else in life, right? Many times we're going through things and you're trying to find something that's easier, more accessible. I can order something on Amazon today and it can be at my door, right? Everything is trying to like speed up, get there faster.

[00:17:53] Don't want to be in pain. People don't like the pain, but the pain is where the growth starts to happen and where you start to learn about yourself. You need [00:18:00] failure. You need those situations that are uncomfortable. That's when you start to find out who you are. Like some of my. Most fired up years are after I've failed, or come up short, or didn't qualify for the game, something.

[00:18:12] That next year, the motivation is so high, because you hate that feeling, it sucks. But you sometimes get used to like, oh, I'm gonna qualify again, and then when you don't, you're like, whoa, hold on. So then you gotta go back to the drawing board, see what you're doing wrong, and then learn from those mistakes, and start to be like, okay, what are those other things I could be doing?

[00:18:29] Can I do my nutrition better? Am I doing enough recovery? Am I, like, Are there other things in my, like, everyday life that are like, hindering my performance and just have to start to look at those things, but if you're always winning and always doing well, you don't ever think about that. But that's why I feel like he's like one of the best teachers.

[00:18:47] Michael Kummer: Yes, I totally agree. And going back to being uncomfortable and also to what we said before where people in the gym typically they want to push it and push it because they feel like if they don't then they are [00:19:00] weak. There are so many things you can do to prove or improve your mental toughness that doesn't necessarily require beating yourself up physically.

[00:19:10] Cold plunging, cold showers, those are examples. If you want to see how tough you are. You know, do that. Stay in the cold current for 10 minutes and then see how tough you are. And if you feel like you want to stay longer because you're weak, then stay longer, but it's not, you get out and you can go work out, nothing, nothing bad is going to happen.

[00:19:26] You know, you cannot, I mean, there are such a thing as overdoing any of those things, but generally speaking, I'd rather push it into a cold lunge without getting hurt than push it or going over the limit in the gym and getting hurt. Right. The consequence of making a poor decision in the gym is bigger.

[00:19:41] And so I totally agree with that. And also with the assessment that. Losing is incre or not doing well or having a failure, I think is just so incredibly valuable to Check in with yourself to, to realize maybe you're not as good as you think you are. And there are ways to improve and accept that. [00:20:00] Be okay with not winning or be okay with failure.

[00:20:03] You know, I think that's so valuable because we're all going to fail at some point, some people more often than others, but it's unavoidable. You're going to fail. And the way you respond to that failure, I think is makes it or breaks it for what's going to come next. If you're going to, if you're going to learn and then grow and be more successful and be better.

[00:20:19] Or you're gonna go downhill and never recover from it in the worst case scenario.

[00:20:23] Travis Mayer: Yeah, and it's building character, right? Like, I think even from, I think part of that too is like the, Even in kids sports now, it's like, you get a trophy for doing this, and you get a trophy for, and I'm like, I'm okay. I think great.

[00:20:36] I'm proud that you did participation and I'm happy for you, but like you guys lost like at the end of the day, I like giving them a trophy and being like, Hey, you won. This is great job on you. I'm like, it's great that they're working and trying to do that. But like, now you're thinking like, Oh, I always get a trophy, whether I lose or win.

[00:20:55] And that's just not right. It's yeah. I've lost out on. [00:21:00] thousands and thousands of dollars from one one thousandth of a second. There's, you're gonna lose, and these things sting, and they hurt, and you don't forget them, but I think it's happening at such a younger age now, where it's just this like, mentality of, okay, everybody's a winner, like, everybody should get a reward or something, and it's, that's just not, yeah, The way it works.

[00:21:18] Like you have to work to improve it. It's

[00:21:20] Michael Kummer: removing discomfort. And that's absolutely terrible. Kids in particular, as soon as possible, learn how to be uncomfortable. Be comfortable being uncomfortable. The sooner you learn it, the better you're off. And then we remove that opportunity for many of those kids to learn it by making everyone a winner and making everyone comfortable.

[00:21:37] And everything is always great. No, it's life sucks. A lot of times, you know, you better get used to it. What else? How do you eat? Do you time your meals? Do you count macros? Do you count how much you eat and when and then how does all that work to perform? Yeah, never that, you know,

[00:21:51] Travis Mayer: so for me nutrition has always been something that's always improved and helped when I feel like I'm dialed in And I've played with being at [00:22:00] certain body weights and how my body actually feels in certain movements, right?

[00:22:03] Usually a little lighter my gymnastics feels great, but I don't always feel as strong And then when I feel as strong, my gymnastics don't feel as good. So for me, it's more about I eat for performance. I'm not eating to aesthetic look. I'm not look like if I have abs, fantastic. If they're not there, like, as long as I'm performing well for me and my goals and what I'm trying to accomplish.

[00:22:24] I'm okay with that. At first, it actually was a hard thing to wrap your head around, right? Like, most people, like, at the high level of CrossFit back in the day were, like, shredded, like, six pack on six pack, and my body just never was, like, like that. Like, I just wasn't ever that lean. And then you start to think, maybe I'm not doing enough, but then you start, like, almost, like, under eating to try to get to that point, and then it's just, like, that's unhealthy, and then now you're not performing.

[00:22:47] And it probably took me, uh, you know, I don't know, a couple years before I was finally like, screw it. I don't care as long as I'm performing well and I feel good and I'm recovering and I'm able to keep continuing to be at the highest level. I'm going to do those things [00:23:00] because. That's what I want to do.

[00:23:01] And then if I'm, when I'm done with CrossFit, if I want to go for the aesthetic look, I'll change my nutrition to replicate that and work towards that. But I've always had the most success for me personally with counting macros. It just allows me to see where I'm at, how much more I need to be at. I've worked with Mike Malloy for a while and so he's been very helpful in that path of, hey, these are what we need to eat, like, in this time frame of where the season's at.

[00:23:28] And then if it changes from that, then we go and adjust it. Or if we're doing doubles versus triples, or if it's getting closer to the gains, like it's a fluctuation all throughout the year. But for me, most of my, I'm not a big fan of a lot of fat. It just doesn't digest well with me. So I don't do like a ton of crazy fat.

[00:23:48] I still try to hit a gram per body weight of protein, and then roughly for carbs, that's just gonna vary on the time of the year and how I'm actually feeling, energy levels, all those kind of little things, [00:24:00] but that for me has just been the most successful that I've found. And it always makes me be aware of what I'm eating, what I'm putting in my body.

[00:24:09] And I feel like when you start to see it, weigh it, and measure it, you're like, oh, like you would, most people are overeating when they're grabbing a handful of pistachios or grabbing something like you're not realizing how much fat you're actually bringing in from that. So you start weighing it out.

[00:24:25] You're like, this is, this is my serving club. What is this? And I think for a lot of times it, it helps just get a good gauge of what I'm putting into my body that way. So for me, it's been the best way I tried paleo back in the day, I tried zone and then those things just, it didn't work for me, but just counting macros and having a good understanding of that has always been something that I've done well with.

[00:24:50] Michael Kummer: Yeah, I think one, there are two things very important, I think that's a worth repeating. One is, be conscious about what your goals are. What are you trying to accomplish? Is it because [00:25:00] being the fittest and performing at the highest level might not necessarily be, uh, or is not the same as doing it for looking ripped, or for longevity, or for any of the other health goals someone might have.

[00:25:12] You really have to understand, you eat a certain way, To achieve a certain goal, right? And eating how you eat and might is different than how I eat because we, both of us have different goals. I'm not trying to be the fittest I can, and I'm not competing anymore. And the other thing, what you said is listen to how you feel, regardless of what someone tells you or what you might hear or what the next guy is doing and they're doing well.

[00:25:35] Maybe it might not be working for you. It really have to be in turn. and figure out how does that food make you feel? And also, obviously, how you look plays a role and is an indication of maybe how fit or how healthy you are, but it's not the only thing. And I think that's particularly important to make the difference between men and women, and maybe less so in a competitive world where, you know, [00:26:00] If you want to compete in a certain way, even as a woman, you have to have a certain strength and maybe look a certain way, but for the average population, let's say for my wife or whoever comes to the gym, trying to replicate what maybe a professional CrossFit lady is doing.

[00:26:15] It might not be in your best interest from a nutritional or any other perspective, really. Yeah.

[00:26:20] Travis Mayer: Yeah. I think it's, yeah, it's definitely more like you want to feel good. And then if you like, don't feel like you look good, then, and that's what you're chasing after, just what you're trying to do to replicate that.

[00:26:32] But right. Yeah. Ours are, our goals are definitely different. Like from my wife to my goals are completely different. Everybody's got different goals. And I think. Do what works for you. And that takes a lot of time of playing with and seeing what does work. It doesn't work. I don't think you should knock on anything until you've tried it.

[00:26:48] Test a lot of different things, unless you're like happy with what you're doing. If something doesn't work, try something else, but you don't need to change everything at once. I think a lot of people think that's the thing they need [00:27:00] to do, right? Like with nutrition, especially it's, I need to get my sugar under control.

[00:27:05] I need no dairy. I don't need to do cheese. I don't need to do all this. I need to make sure everything's organic and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's just slow down. Just start with one thing and try that. See how it goes for a couple of weeks. If you're able to maintain that. add something else that's new or try something else.

[00:27:20] Or if you're like, Hey, I want to slowly take out sugar. All right, take out the sugar that you're doing, but do that for a couple of weeks and then try something else. And I think a lot of times it's so overwhelming because so many people are trying to do everything at once and you just can't do that.

[00:27:36] It's a, that is a very hard thing to do if you don't have the tools. Very few people can. But you gotta be really determined and some very good willpower if that's what you're going to do. But I just don't think that's a healthy way to live. And I think. If you want the cookie cake, right, enjoy the slice of cookie cake, but right, it's in moderation, right?

[00:27:54] Have the one and then let it go. I think a lot of times it's, I have one and then it's, oh, I just had four more. It's their [00:28:00] problem of a lot of little things. I think people aren't always aware of or aren't even paying attention to. And then that leads back to where I'm like, that's why tracking's helpful.

[00:28:08] And it's, if I know I have 30 grams of carbs left and I have, 10 grams of protein. I'm like, all right, I could actually have this slice of cookie cake and then have some peanut butter or something else after that if that's what I want, right? There's ways around it of still being able to eat the foods that you like and still get results that you're wanting.

[00:28:26] I think it's just having an understanding of that and knowledge base to support that decision.

[00:28:33] Michael Kummer: And being conscious, I think that's really the main thing. Most people eat unconsciously. They're just stuffed their face full of things without thinking of what it is that they're doing and what's, what is their, what's the goal of eating?

[00:28:46] Whatever they are eating, what purpose does that food have to help them? Reach their goals. Most people just eat whatever and you don't think about what it is switching gears from attrition to to sleep When I say how do you sleep? I don't mean do you sleep [00:29:00] good or bad? I assume you sleep relatively good.

[00:29:02] But what is your sleep routine? How seriously do you take going to bed at a certain time or waking up at a certain time or how does your sleep? routine look like

[00:29:11] Travis Mayer: Yeah, I'm a creature of habit with a lot of things. I would be fine eating the same meals every single day. I'm fine going to bed at the same time.

[00:29:19] Like, I just have a very structured lifestyle and routine, but I think I also have to have that to continue to pursue this goal that I'm trying. So for me, it's, my wife is a teacher, so she gets up pretty early to leave. in the morning and so roughly we try to be in bed by nine o'clock. I usually sleep within the next three to five minutes by the time my head hits the pillow.

[00:29:43] I think it drives her nuts that I fall asleep so fast. or there'll be nights where I'll just jump. Are you already asleep? Oh, yeah. Sorry. You're also training all day. And then when it's like time to shut down, I just shut everything down. I'm not really thinking anymore. My body is like, Hey, it's [00:30:00] bedtime.

[00:30:00] I'm roughly probably nine o'clock to 536 o'clock all day. I'm not usually much later than that. And for me, the Nine hours of that is usually pretty good. I have a lot of kids. I got four kids, so they definitely have nights where they wake up and they come in and they have a bad dream or they just wanted water.

[00:30:18] I don't, they have all sorts of random requests in the middle of the night, which definitely throws off. Uh, I'm always fresh, right? Like versus a younger athlete that doesn't have kids and can sleep until 10 and then go train. Like, why not? That's better for you. You're probably going to recover more, but for me, it works waking up at around those times and going to bed at those times and just making sure that I'm dialed in and then if I wake up and I'm feeling tired, like, You just suck it up and you figure it out.

[00:30:45] That's being a parent and a father and you continue on with your day. Like they still have things they need to go to and school, sports. And you just learn to train and compete and do things tired. So then when you are at a [00:31:00] competition, you're tired. I'm actually okay. This is like the normal state I live in to an degree.

[00:31:04] But yeah, for me, that's the big thing. I use, uh, I've used Eight Sleep for a few years now. Wow, it's actually probably been maybe longer than a few years. It's been a while. But for me, that has been something that actually made a big difference of being able to control the bed temperature versus I used to get like kind of just hot in the middle of the night at like probably 12 to 2 somewhere in there.

[00:31:26] And you'd wake up and you'd take the covers off and then I'd wake up and then I'm freezing. So then I put the covers back on, you listen in this in between range. And so I've been using that for a while. And depending on if it's the summer or winter, like I adjust it to fit what feels the best and actually made a big difference with how I sleep and then how deep of a sleep I'm actually in.

[00:31:49] And I've used that for a while. And I find that's probably the only other sleep thing I guess I really do. I used to do a lot of meditation before bed, but that's like up and [00:32:00] down. Sometimes just right now it's a little off season. So you go back on things that you don't always do, but then when things start to pick up, you're like.

[00:32:07] Get back into those habits and rituals of what you were doing.

[00:32:10] Michael Kummer: Yeah, no, we've been using eight sleep as well. It's, it's been an absolute game changer. I remember when you said waking up too hot and then a couple of hours later, you're freezing. I distinctly remember those nights and they are fortunately long gone now.

[00:32:23] Do you drink alcohol at all?

[00:32:25] Travis Mayer: No, maybe twice a year. If that, it's just something that. I feel worse the next day. I don't feel good. Uh, and so I've never really, when you were younger, right? Like you're like, ah, let's go get drunk and do that. And you're like, I wake up and my kids aren't drunk. So they're waking up ready to go.

[00:32:42] And I don't have four extra hours to keep sleeping. And it's never been something that I've been just big into. I think it's nice to sit there and have a glass of whiskey or something with like your friends that you're sipping on over the course of a couple hours. And just like having conversation and talking like, you know, I would [00:33:00] rather do that than sit there to get drunk and have that kind of like feeling but the older I've gotten the more I'm just like It doesn't appeal to me a lot to consume it, it gets expensive, I'm just like, there's a lot of negatives that come around it more than positives, besides it's just like a social thing that people do when they're out.

[00:33:20] I'm like, I could grab a Red Solo cup and put water in, you wouldn't know the difference if I got alcohol, or if I got water.

[00:33:27] Michael Kummer: I completely understand. What else do you do besides, you mentioned cold plunging, you mentioned sauna before, do you do that regularly as well?

[00:33:35] Travis Mayer: Yeah, so Thursdays are my off day ish of training.

[00:33:40] It's usually something like Sunday's the full day off where I don't do anything. I just make sure that's the time with the family and stuff. But on Thursdays, I been playing around with 25 to 30 minutes in. and infrared. I'll do three minutes out and do that for about 90 minutes. And I've been building up to a two hour like [00:34:00] protocol of it.

[00:34:00] There was like a Huberman lab that came out and was talking about, yeah, increasing natural growth hormones and testing it. And I was like, let's see, right? This is goes back to the beginning of you have to try and see what works and what doesn't. And like, how does my recovery feel when I feel. Pretty good afterwards.

[00:34:16] Like the first, I don't know, it was probably like three weeks cause I would only do it Thursdays. And it's only recommended you do it once a week for roughly that time. And we started, I think it was an hour first. So I do 20 minutes in three minutes out, 20 minutes, three minutes, 20 minutes. And at first you're like, Oh man, like this.

[00:34:31] Okay, this is aggressive. But then the next week you add a couple minutes to it. So now you're at like 23 minutes. The next week you're at 25 and like you slowly just increase it. And I think it was to the point where I was at around an hour and a half to an hour and 45 that I was making it. But I felt a difference from like recovery standpoint.

[00:34:50] And then I would do a lot of meditation in that. I think a lot of that is you're in a clear headspace, like you're allowing things to actually start to improve and focus on [00:35:00] like the mental aspect in moments like that. And just being like present with yourself, I think is beneficial and a lot of people just hide under the rug and don't always sit there like in those moments.

[00:35:12] But yeah, I think that's probably one of the other things that I mainly do.

[00:35:16] Michael Kummer: Have you actually measured your growth hormones to see if it had an impact?

[00:35:19] Travis Mayer: No, I should have.

[00:35:21] Michael Kummer: Yeah. I, because the other day, someone, I recorded a video not too long ago in a difference between steam and infrareds on us, because we have both at home.

[00:35:28] And for me, the heat stress is comparable. My heart rate goes up to 110, 115 in either one, if I am in there long enough. And so I'm like, But most of the studies on sauna bathing out there are done with traditional steam saunas or Finnish saunas. And so a lot of people BS, it doesn't work, it's not hot enough, blah blah blah.

[00:35:47] I'm like, you have an 8 0 idea. Yeah, yeah, you will be hot, you know, if you're, if you're a good infrared sauna. It's going to fry you from the inside. And I'm like, what to put all the discussion to rest. I'm going to measure my [00:36:00] growth hormones before and after and do something like what you just said.

[00:36:03] Spend an hour in there in total and see what impact it has. I haven't done it yet, but that's on my bucket list. I was wondering if you're ever. Yeah. So I didn't actually measure it,

[00:36:11] Travis Mayer: but so that was what I was doing pretty religiously leading up to Madrid and Rogue. And that was like one of the, I felt pretty fit at both of those events.

[00:36:20] And, but I, it's all the little things that add up to make sure that feeling that way and you're performing that way. But yeah, I think it's something definitely, it's not going to hurt either, right? Like you're, it can only benefit you, right? And the sauna is good for you. And then you're sweating out all the toxins in your body.

[00:36:38] And from a health standpoint, building your immune system, like there's a lot of positives regardless if you're doing it for that reason or just like, I need to get into it. But this is one of those things where you don't have to do it for that long. There's no reason for the everyday person to do that.

[00:36:53] But hopping in there for 20 minutes, doing some cold plunging, like getting into those uncomfortable situations, right? Like it, [00:37:00] it is uncomfortable. You're at 90 minutes in and you're like, man, I'm very lightheaded. If when I get up out of this, it's going to be questionable, right? There's moments, but it's still in a controlled environment, um, in those kinds of scenarios.

[00:37:13] But that's when you start to get comfortable with it. And then when you're outside training. And it's 90 degrees and you're outside, you're like, all right, this is pretty comfortable from what I've been exposing myself to. Same way with cold plunging, like this level of discomfort and feelings, it's, I feel way better and I'm way more used to it inside the gym and other areas of my life that like, it just allows you to like down regulate everything and get into a better headspace and be able to perform better.

[00:37:40] Michael Kummer: Yeah, no, I totally agree. Um, I've noticed that my, The way I perceive cold and heat have changed dramatically, specifically with the cold plunging. I think I'm more on the cold side than on the warm side because I always used to be someone who would get freezing very quickly, cold feet, cold hands, and whatever.

[00:37:56] And now it's when it's cold outside, I can walk [00:38:00] without a shirt on and I feel fine. I'm not like, I don't feel like I'm falling apart anymore. And for everyone who is like, who wants to be comfortable, actually, if you get uncomfortable a lot, then you're actually more comfortable overall, because you're not as uncomfortable anymore in a situation where most everyone else is uncomfortable.

[00:38:18] So, if you do one thing for a little bit, then it really helps a lot on the other side in everyday situations.

[00:38:23] Travis Mayer: Yeah. Cause I think a lot of people, even with cold plunging, they think, what other benefits are there? There's a lot of other like. mental components that I think it benefits almost more than just the physical side of things.

[00:38:34] Like a lot of mine is, okay, how can I recover faster and get back to training? But then I'm like, there's a lot of mental benefits of getting in there, staying in for two to three minutes if you're able to, and then doing that first thing in the morning, hopping out, seeing how your day feels, right? Like not needing the caffeine as much, like just having the natural endorphins and everything, getting me through the day.

[00:38:53] Like those things make a big difference. And But people don't always want to do it, right? Like you gotta, you [00:39:00] gotta want to do it. You have to want to experiment and try and improve those things. Yes.

[00:39:06] Michael Kummer: Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, most people don't have that desire. What do you have? Do you take a pre workout supplement?

[00:39:12] I know many years ago they were super popular. I'm not sure if they still are, but everyone like was with a shake, with a pink or whatever, a colored drink before a workout with amino acid and caffeine. And if it makes your skin tingle, then you perform better or whatever. Do you care about any of that stuff, or?

[00:39:28] I guess you take if you think it's valuable.

[00:39:30] Travis Mayer: Yeah. So I do beta alanine and then I'll take some caffeine, but then that will vary through just supplements. Then I'll vary through just like what I'm drinking. But for me, it's what works. The beta alanine I feel is. definitely more from a performance standpoint of buffering the lactic acid when I'm in workouts and improving that, right?

[00:39:52] That's I'm going for a performance thing. That's the main reason I'm actually taking that. And then the caffeine just gives you the extra like little go juice right before you're about to. [00:40:00] Do something like some days I'm taking it other days. I'm not, it really varies. If I'm doing one or at maxes, then yeah, I'm most likely taking it.

[00:40:06] If I'm doing like a hardcore METCON, I'm not, I'm trying to keep it hard than I am trying to get it all excited and fired up. But then I have a lot, what is it? NG Nutra that I take and different supplements that they provide from a post workout to pre workout that we're using. And then. I've used a lot of things over the years and you just play around and see what works.

[00:40:27] And for me, I found what works for me and what allows me to do three to four workouts in a day and continue to keep training that way and improving upon that. So if I'm able to do that, then I'm going to stay on that path of don't not get, don't do something else unless that's broke for me.

[00:40:47] Michael Kummer: Have we ever tried High salt intake before a workout, like three, five to five grams of salt.

[00:40:56] Travis Mayer: Not, I would do that almost like more from a [00:41:00] cramping perspective. I've had a lot of cramping issues over the years, just at random times and competitions, but usually due to probably like more high stress involved with those situations that it's happening, but I've done a lot of salt and Tabasco sauce.

[00:41:12] Like I've tried like everything just like shots of Tabasco sauce, which is. terrible, but you try everything to like, see if it actually works. And indeed, but then you just, other than just taking a full thing of salt before workout, I don't think I ever have.

[00:41:27] Michael Kummer: I have, I don't know who might've been on a Hooberman podcast or somewhere.

[00:41:31] I don't know where I heard it. Like I was saying, Oh, just mix creatine with a shitload of salt before I work out. And there was, I think something else, but I didn't remember there's something else. I only remember the creatine and the salt. And I'm like, I'm going to try this. So on days when I, and I've.

[00:41:46] I've since been doing this on and I'm obviously it's an N equal one study. So I anecdotal evidence, obviously, but I've, I think that for me, when I wake up, I have a glass of water and I put like a teaspoon of salt in [00:42:00] it, and that's usually also five, 30 to six. And then before I go work out, I have another teaspoon of salt with, with five grams of creatine, and then just a sip on my element electrolyte during the workout.

[00:42:12] And I feel like whenever I do this, I perform significantly better. In my league, obviously not, I'm not doing what you're doing. I only work at once, twice a week, four times a day, but I feel my performance has always been top notch when I do this. Difficult to say because on a day where I don't do it, maybe I would have not performed any better with it.

[00:42:32] It's difficult to say, but I just, based on how I feel, I feel that has really helped a lot and I wonder if anyone else has ever tried this to either say, yes, it does, or no, that's, it's all in your head. I don't know.

[00:42:42] Travis Mayer: Yeah. I don't know. I haven't personally tried it, so I'm not, 100 percent sure. I feel like somebody out there definitely has.

[00:42:48] All

[00:42:50] Michael Kummer: right. Anything else that you do outside of the gym that translate or that could help someone who is not a pro athlete? Obviously, we don't want to give any tips to our [00:43:00] competitors, but for someone in our audience or for me, what else can people do to A, reduce the risk of injury? perform better and just keep moving better and are feeling better overall, instead of going home and having all kinds of aches and pains.

[00:43:16] Travis Mayer: Yeah, I think. Yeah, that's a good question. I think, of course, at the end of the day, it's going to come down to whatever the person's goal is and what they're trying to accomplish and shoot for. I think for the average person, it's probably going to be having a good substantial warmup. I think a lot of times when people are going into workouts, they're not actually getting warmed up enough.

[00:43:35] I think a lot of times if people saw the warmups that we like, we do before you're going into a workout, they'd be like, you've done half that's a whole workup. I'm like, yeah, but like getting my body prepped and ready. to do that like maximal effort. And I think a lot of times people are like, Oh, I'm gonna burn out my reps or I'm going to lose the reps.

[00:43:53] And it's then you should scale. So that doesn't happen. And I think being okay with scaling [00:44:00] from any workout routine that you're doing, like lower the volume or intensity, do whatever you need to do to accomplish it. Like In CrossFit or sport, right? Like, in a general class, you're trying to get as close as you can to the fastest time.

[00:44:14] So, if there's a four minute gap difference between my time and your time, you're like, Okay, yes, there's going to be some difference in that. But how can we get you closer to that? Is that I'm just hitting a muscular fatigue standpoint? Is that I went way too heavy and now I'm just resting too much? Like, being able to look at different areas of your training.

[00:44:32] And then start to improve those things. So I think like a big warmup is a very important one. And I think a big cool down is very important. Like people come into the gym and then they don't want to warm up or they show up a few minutes late and they jump into class. And then when they're done, they're hopping on their phone and then they go sit in their car.

[00:44:47] And it's okay. You just did a lot of work. inside that hour. And now you're going and sitting down, you're not taking a shake and you're not taking like those few things that take 10 minutes, right? Not [00:45:00] that many people need to leave that fast and be done. I'm like, I see you guys all text and sit around or do something like you can spend the time sitting in couch, stretch, hooking up a band and do some band ends or bandage stretches or some foam rolling or hop in the Norma tech boots or hop.

[00:45:14] Like we have all of those things at disposal. I think a lot of people. Need to use and prioritize, but they're like, ah, it's not as important, but those are the things that keep you healthy, moving better, feeling better, staying in it for a longer period of time. And I get, it's not always glamorous and exciting, but those are the things you have to do if you're wanting to live.

[00:45:36] A longer and healthier life. Like you have to do the boring isometric work, knee tendons and elbow tendons. Like you have to do the things that aren't exciting. If you want to continue to live the life that you're wanting to. And if that is through athletics or that is through like playing with your kids and wanting to be able to pick them up and do things when you're older and 70 and 80, like to do those things that are [00:46:00] boring and that's just part of it.

[00:46:01] Like it's fitness and health is the one thing you have to work on. Everything else just happens instant, right? If I'm thirsty, right? Like you drink something. Okay. Then my thirst is quenched. And if I'm tired, I sleep and I wake up and I feel better. I want to lose weight, get stronger, live a healthier life.

[00:46:18] There's not a pill for that, right? Like you have to physically work to get to that and accomplish that. And I think that's sometimes what is very challenging for fitness and getting people to do those things is it's uncomfortable and it's hard, but spending the time. Recovering, trying new things, like all of those things I think are definitely going to make a big difference from a movement standpoint, always try to improve.

[00:46:44] movement quality, movement patterns. If you're not sure, film it, watch it from different angles. If you don't know what that's, ask a coach or somebody else. Like those things start to help. But then when you start moving better, then you actually start feeling way better, right? Because now I'm not putting my body in bad [00:47:00] positions.

[00:47:00] So I think from all of those things, it's going to vary on what the actual like end goal is. If it's a nutrition thing, like, Play with the nutrition, get a nutritionist, or have someone write your macros, or start to mess around with, like, how much protein I'm taking in versus carb, and see what works, what doesn't, get blood work done, like, things that you can't actually see that are happening internally, I think it's important to do all of those things, and, yeah, it takes time, yes, it's a lot of experimenting and having an understanding, but if the goal and objective is to live a healthier life, get better, and do these things, then, I don't see it as that much work relative to how much time people are on social media or scrolling on Instagram.

[00:47:42] Like the amount of times that people are doing that it's, and you could be doing so many other things, reading books, doing something like in your mind, go hop on a cold plate, do so many other things. But I think those would probably be the things that I would focus on. And if I was, or tips that I would say to try to improve and get better [00:48:00] at, there's probably 10, 000 other things I could list and go into and have deep dive discussions on.

[00:48:05] But. I think from like a basic fundamental level, it's just learn how to eat, right? Feel better. You want to move better. You want to wake up not in pain. So that's getting your movement quality, better working on the positions, scale appropriately to what you need to do. Don't worry about super heavy and pushing your boundaries.

[00:48:25] Like at times, yes, there's a time and need for that. And then other times it's man, just lower the weight. You'll get a better workout. You'll get better results. I'm eating that stuff than you would. Trying to R Exit or try to do something else like that.

[00:48:39] Michael Kummer: Yeah. Yeah. And especially when, when it comes to not, not being able to arrive or not doing the stretching before and after, I've noticed just by using the gun, the percussion gun, just a few minutes, all those muscle groups that I'm going to engage during the workout has made a significant difference in how much discomfort I might feel, especially if I have an area that's already a [00:49:00] little sticky.

[00:49:01] and how quickly I fatigue or not. And that, it takes one, two minutes on each muscle group or whatever. You can bang this out in maybe five, six, seven minutes, you know, before you work. It doesn't take a lot of time and you're going to feel so much better. And the same is, you know, after, even if you don't want to go into any elaborate stretching, just use the gun.

[00:49:18] It's there, especially in an hour in your gym. Just use it if you don't have one. And the other thing, I've noticed for me mentally, there are days I have to admit where I'm like, I don't want to get into the cold plunge. I don't want to sit five minutes in there. I'd rather do it. I come up with excuses of what I could do.

[00:49:35] And I'm like, and what I've noticed is if I just do it, even if it's, if I scale, like I'm only in for two minutes today, instead of five minutes, but by taking that quick mental win, it makes you want to do it again because you get out and say, wasn't that bad. And I'm glad I did it. And so instead of saying, Oh, I either do 10 minutes or I don't do it at all.

[00:49:56] No stretch for two minutes. It's better than not stretching at all. Yeah, I [00:50:00] think.

[00:50:00] Travis Mayer: Oh, it makes a big difference. I think a lot of times people are like, I need to do this. This is this. Just do a little, like those little things will add up at the end of the day. Well, you're saying like, do two minutes, man, you'll wake up, you'll, you'll get out of it.

[00:50:14] You'll feel way better. You're like, I'm glad I did that. Did I want to do it? Oh, but that's where I'm getting better. Those are the daily wins that I want and stack up. It's being able to do that and compound that day after day and then it's, Oh, now it's not an issue at all. Then you don't even think about it.

[00:50:28] You just literally hop in and then you're just hanging out.

[00:50:31] Michael Kummer: Yep, exactly. And regarding the scaling, for me, I have a little bit of a sticky shoulder sometimes and Whenever there is butterfly pull ups on the program, I say, you know what? I'm going to do strict. A, because if I cannot do strict, 30 strict pull ups, then for me, based on my goals, I shouldn't be trying butterflies because I'm not trying to be as fast as I possibly can.

[00:50:54] I'm trying to improve my pull strength. And what is the best we do is well with strict pull ups. So I'm scaling. [00:51:00] I'm not as cool as everyone else hanging on the bar and doing the butterflies. But for what my goal is improving my health, my, my pulse strength and my longevity at the end of the day, it's more beneficial.

[00:51:11] And I don't feel any less of a man because I'm not butterflying. And I think that's something that every, every, Average Joe or chain, you know, should get into their head that it's perfectly fine to scale if it helps you achieve your goals quicker and with less risk of injury. You know, so I like that you said scale appropriately and really don't worry about, you know, if the guy next to you or the girl next to you is not scaling, you know, do what is best for you and.

[00:51:37] Don't worry, you're not going to be any less of an athlete. Yeah, I think people get

[00:51:40] Travis Mayer: so caught up in it, right? And then you, I'm always like, what's going to happen when you leave? What happens when you leave, right? No one's asking you about it, no one cares if you butterflied or kipped. So like, walk out the door and there's like a camera in your face being like, Did you butterfly or kip today?

[00:51:56] Did you scale your hands? Did you use an ab mat versus two ab [00:52:00] mats? I think so many people almost feel like that pressure, like there's people in there watching and it's, at the end of the day, you would step back and realize that no one's even watching, you were paying attention. So it's, I don't know why we put this pressure and expectation on ourselves, which sometimes is a good thing.

[00:52:15] Like you do need that at times, but other times it's, if I'm just doing a workout and hanging out, there's no need for me to be concerned that much if I have ab mats or if I need this strict pull up versus kipper, if I need a blue band versus a black band, like it doesn't matter, right? Like I'm trying to get better for me and that's, that's why you're there.

[00:52:35] Don't worry about what other people are doing, just focus on you.

[00:52:37] Michael Kummer: Yes, totally agree. Cool. I think with that, we're going to wrap it up. We're actually one minute past the hour, so I very much appreciate your time. I know we are only four hours before you have to go to sleep.

[00:52:48] Travis Mayer: I like my early bedtimes.

[00:52:49] Michael Kummer: Yeah, so do I.

[00:52:50] So again, I very much appreciate it. I let you know once the episode is live and once we have all the social assets and stuff, we'll tag you on. And yeah, with that, we're going to wrap it up. Thanks, [00:53:00] Travis. Appreciate it. Thank you. And I'll see you maybe tomorrow in the gym.

[00:53:04] Travis Mayer: We'll see you there.