118: The blood pressure number your doctor ignores with Craig Cooper CEO of CONNEQT

extra: Craig Cooper, CEO, and founder of Digital Healthcare Brand Connect is a seasoned tech entrepreneur, passionate about technology that benefits the health and wellness of everyday individuals.

Craig Cooper: Uh, you know, Testone, Testone is a huge sort of biomarker that we both follow. I mean, we have. Our levels today, epigenetically are, you know, 20% less than our fathers at the same age, so mm-hmm.

extra: His leadership as CEO of Cardia X, the parent company of Connect, has made him an expert in connected health technology and the heart health industry as a whole.

MK: Alright, Craig Cooper, thanks so much for making the time. I know you're busy. I've read, read up a little bit on you. I mean, you've, there, there is not much you haven't done, um, in, in your lifetime and so very impressive resume.

And, but lately you've been into health tech and, and you developed a device or helped develop a device around blood pressure. I've been testing this, I've had it for a couple of weeks now, and I, I, I changed my opinion or. I, I guess I expanded my expertise in terms of what it means to get a blood, a good blood pressure.

Reading how what you might be getting at your annual physical that takes. Two to five seconds might be relatively worthless. And, and what it could mean that if you, if you have like, you know, elevated blood pressure, even though you're doing everything right, like in my case and how that, you know, then falls apart, if you really look at central blood pressure, which is ultimately what matters, you know, how much pressure or the blood vessels close to your heart under and not the ones that might be, you know, at your wrist or maybe even, you know, on your, on your biceps or in, in that area.

And so. You know, I maybe just, you know, tell us a little bit about your, your, your background, all of the major milestones you've gone through, how you got into blood pressure, why, why is it interesting to you? And then we'll dive right into, you know, dissecting some of the common misconceptions around blood pressure and why it's, it's obviously an important biometric, right?

But we have to look at the right numbers and use the right methodology to measure it in order for it to be useful, you know?

Craig Cooper: Yeah, absolutely. I, I would argue it's the, it's the number one biomarker. 'cause it's really, you know, the gateway for, um, for the majority of diseases and, you know, uh, uh, of cardiovascular disease, obviously Alzheimer's kidney disease.

You know, even to, you know, diseases of, uh, of, uh, maternal pregnancy. So, I mean, uh, pressures and vascular pressures cover so much of the disease spectrum that, you know, the way we look at it is it, you know, really is the gateway. Um, for better health management. You know, we can, um, you know, we can, you know, take n supplements and, you know, cold baths, you know, all day long and use, you know, red therapy, you know, blankets.

But, you know, at the end of the day, if you, you know, if you don't have the big rocks in place in terms of monitoring, then you know, you really, you know, handicapping yourself from the perspective of health. So. It's, it's the, it's the largest killer. Um, you know, it's the largest burden on the, you know, US and global healthcare system.

You know, more people have hypertension than any other disorder. You know, I put to 50% of men, uh, or I should say, um, adults in the us, um, have hypertension. Most of that's undiagnosed. Um, or diagnosed, but not treated properly because, you know, we're still using, you know, to your point, um, 150 year old technology, which is the.

Basic, you know, brachial measurement of pressures at the arm. And you know, what, we've, uh, not so much introduced, but what we are, um, what we're now bringing to a wider market is a much wider group of vascular biomarkers that have, uh, been in use for well over 25 years now in, uh, practice. Um, so very specialized, uh, practice.

Um, nephrologists, cardiologists. But also our devices are used, um, extensively in clinical trials. So, you know, anywhere from, you know, diabetes trials, um, vaping, um, arterial stiffness, impact on, uh, from vaping, you know, obviously through the, uh, heart failure, hypertension and so on and so forth. So long history of, uh, clinical trials.

We've done, you know, over 60 clinical trials to date. Um, and then in academic research and you know, what? What we are now doing, as I mentioned, we are really taking that level of, uh, of, uh, specialist biomarkers and bringing them to primary care physicians, concierge medicine, and consumers. And this is not new, new technology.

Um, we pioneered it, um, a little over 25 years ago, uh, when the original founder of the company was the first. To be able to measure what's called central pressure waveforms, which is the, uh, waveform and the pressure exerted at your heart, non-invasively. Traditionally, that had always been done in an ICU setting.

Mm-hmm. Using a, what's called an A line. Um, so it's really, uh, become, uh, known as the gold standard. Pressure measurement, but it was never available to consumers. Um, you know, the, the, the equipment that we had, uh, was, um, uh, developed for clinicians, wasn't user friendly for consumers, it was priced out of the consumer range.

Our devices that were selling to those markets were, you know, anywhere from 9,000 to, um, to $35,000. So completely outside the. Um, the affordability of, uh, of pretty much everyone I would argue. So really what we've done now is, um, I like to call it, we put a Ferrari engine into a Ford body. We've taken out traditional devices, our Figma core technology, which has, you know, 3000 references and PubMed, so it's the most validated, um, consistently recognizes gold standard.

Technology for measuring central pressure wave forms and putting that into a, into a Ford body. So Ferrari engine now in a Ford body. Mm-hmm. 9,000 down to sub 400, um, as part of, uh, a connect to vascular health assessment program. So, um, that's what we've brought to the market over the last 12 months. We think it's, um, extremely impactful and we are, we are seeing that just from the, you know, the feedback across all the markets that we are, we are focused on because we, we are now able to measure.

Uh, uh, not only central pressures, uh, we're able to measure, uh, things like arterial stiffness. Which is sort of a broad term for what's called the augmentation indexes. These, the pressure wave forms in your, in your arteries, as well as, uh, biomarkers like, uh, uh, the BUCKBERG index or sub endocardial variability index, which measures heart stress.

Um, and, uh, it's, it's really like a VO two max for your heart, if I can give that analogy. Which I think we, you know, we both get right. Um, so it really measures your heart's ability to perform under pressure as opposed to, you know, VO max, which is, you know, maximum sort of oxygen, oxygen capacity and et cetera.

So, um, a whole suite of indicators which give a, um, much broader, um, insights into your vascular health. Um, way beyond, uh, brachial pressure and, um, way more predictive than what we are getting today. Just from our, you know, general. I think you, uh, you mentioned, uh, before we turn recording, just, you know, the general rushed process that we, we are all taken through when we, we go into a clinicians, which I mean, if we just look at that, uh, just irrespective of what we're doing in the market, just that process alone.

At the clinical level is just, uh, slow, so flawed that it's amazing that, um, it still exists. You know, we go, go ahead.

MK: No, I wish I, you know, I remember, I mean, I stopped going to, you know, doing annual physicalist because they predominantly, they, they're worthless at the end of the day. Um, and I never hear anything new or interesting or, or, or useful.

And, you know, I go in there, might have a sweater or whatever on a thick sweater because it's winter, they just slap it over. You know, they don't care if my feet are, you know, on, in contact with the ground if I'm, you know, having a back rest or anything, anywhere. I mean, I, I'm surprised they don't take it standing, you know?

Of course. And it's like two seconds, they're like all good. I'm like, what do you mean all good? There is no way on earth you could have measured. Yeah. Or taking a good blood pressure reading the way at what you just did.

Craig Cooper: Yeah. It's like when, you know, you and I go in and the first thing that put us on is the scales normally.

Right?

MK: Yeah, right. You

Craig Cooper: know, we've, we probably had, you know, three or four pounds of breakfast. We've got our, you know, boots on and a couple of jackets and, and you know, I just feel like stripping off every time. It's just, it's just irrelevant. And, you know, same with blood pressure. We're rushed to get there.

We've got an elevated heart rate. We go in, you know, normally with a nurse, it's a single reading. That alone is in breach of the, um, American Medical Association guidelines. It's supposed to let you sit for five minutes. Uh, so to take consecutive readings, uh, three times average that out. And that's, as you know, pretty much as good as you can get in that mm-hmm.

In that clinical setting. But then, you know, it's pretty rare that your physician even looks at it. So, um, uh, really they're just ticking off a reimbursement box, um, from the purposes of coding. Um, so just a waste of time, um, especially when you look at, um, you know, really how, uh, you know, impactful and important it is because we have so many, uh, Americans, I'll just refer to, just given, um, given that data point who are, who are truly undiagnosed, not just.

From the perspective of their brachial readings, but also from the fact that they're registering high normal for brachial pressure. But really when you measure their central pressures, um, that's where you see either, you know, significant elevation or um, or lower readings. So that's what we're trying to focus on.

That's what we're trying to create as a, uh, as kind of the, the tip of the sphere for, uh, this whole new suite of biomarkers that we're bringing to market. And it's not any different, Michael, from, you know, heart rate 10 or 15 years ago, or heart rate variability in that same time period. These are, they all seem simple to us today, but these are all flowed down from mainly research and academia.

So. That's kind of the path that we're on. So we're at the forefront of that, um, in terms of really trying to change that whole diagnostic and preventative paradigm. Mm-hmm.

MK: But, but the thing is, you know, your device, I've been using it for a while now. It, it looks and works like a regular. Blood pressure cuff.

Right. So you, you know, you slap it on, you push a button and then you sit still, you know, ideally, I think at the first time you do it, you actually take a couple of readings, like a protocol you have to go through. Exactly. Get a baseline, right? Yeah. Um, and, and then subsequent readings then appear to be quicker.

You don't have to go through all of that things again, but same, some of the same principles still apply. I mean, don't do it, you know, coming back from a workout at, you know, sit down and do it or, you know, run in the door and, and, and take your, your reading or when you're maybe incredibly stressed or had alcohol, you know, there are several factors that can negatively, because blood pressure isn't, isn't stable, you know, throughout the day.

It fluctuates constantly. Absolutely. And then heart rate. Mm-hmm. You know, all of those things go up and down and I guess you wanna understand when is a good time. For a reading, much like with HIV, if I just take an HIV reading, you know, in the middle of the day out of context, it's absolutely useless because what, what does it tell me?

Right? But if I take it totally during deep sleep where I, I'm, you know, not exposed to external influences, it's probably a much better indication of how my nervous system is, is adapting to stressors. Right. And so I guess the same a hundred percent applies to, to blood pressure.

Craig Cooper: Yeah. That's why Aura has that pattern.

I think it's around 4:10 AM. They've like locked a patent in at 4:10 AM in the morning. They take their HRV reading mm-hmm. Every day. So, which exactly to your point. Um, but you are right. You know, the whole process is very similar, uh, to brachi your cuff. Uh, the, the sort of, the uniqueness of it is when you first use it, as you mentioned, you, uh, you have a guided process which we take you through.

It's a kind of a meditative process that we walk you through to get your three consecutive readings in order to get your baseline. Then you'll experience the cuff, which is unique. We inflate, uh, once in order to get a brachial reading, but then we, uh, reinflate and we just hold a very light pressure on the cuff, just sub diastolic in order to get the central pressure wave form.

And really that's the, that's the reading of the pressure waves, um, of your artery. And then through that we really slice and dice out, um, that waveform in order to get those, um, other biomarkers that you mentioned. But. Um, it's very important to be consistent, um, important also, as you mentioned, to do it at the same time, um, every day.

Um, important not to be reactive just to a single reading. Um, and note it, log it, and you know, in the app for the Connect app as well as in the cardiovascular reports, which we provide. Very detailed, um, on demand and monthly reports, um, which are vetted by a cardiologist, um, 12 page report on a monthly one, and you get a little bit shorter for the on demand report.

All of this is listed, all the trends are listed, so that's what's most important because it's not something that, um, you can change overnight. You know, obviously it's very lifestyle driven and there are the, um, you know, the, the, the normal aspects of, um. Of, uh, sort of maintaining healthy blood flow and vascular, uh, flow.

Not too different to, um, you know, just being a healthy human

extra: right.

Craig Cooper: Uh, but you can also supplement it for, you know, certain indications, um, outside of the drug therapy I'm talking about. But, um, very simple process. But you know, as you pointed out, Michael, you know, consistency is key. Don't be reactive, um, follow the trends.

Um, and, you know, we hope that in the app and everything else that we provide, um, we provide prompts and, um, good, good habits. We provide 28 day programs for arterial health and a whole bunch of things. So it's just important to be consistent.

MK: Mm-hmm. Now, you know, when I, I, I alluded to it in the beginning, you know, I.

Anytime, like from back in the days, not when I still went to, you know, got, got manual physically and I would go there and my blood pressure would be, let's say, I dunno, one 30 over 85. And I'm like, Hmm, that's odd. So I, you know, I bought a cuff and I kept doing readings at home to kind of figure out what is my trend and not just at one off reading and.

And even though my, my average outnumbers then were, you know, somewhere in the low one twenties to, you know, high or mid seventies, uh, diastolic, I'm like, okay, I'm, I'm fine. But I'm like, shouldn't my blood pressure be even lower considering everything that I'm doing to, you know, maintain optimal health, or at least to the best of my, of my knowledge.

And I couldn't really figure out what else I could be doing differently. Right. And then I started using. Your, uh, device to connect, and I saw then, okay, well my, my central blood pressure is actually in the, I don't know, one 15 over, I don't remember what the exact numbers were, but significantly below what my brachial, uh, blood pressure.

So maybe let's talk a little bit about what. Could cause that difference between, because shouldn't the blood pressure if it's centrally low, shouldn't it be the same in the extremities? And if not, why is that what, you know? Physical characteristics could maybe be at play. Is it, you know, is there any, I dunno, muscle volume or who knows what else?

Yeah, that could be at, that can,

Craig Cooper: yeah, that can absolutely be a part of it, but a lot happens between the. The heart and the, uh, peripheral arteries. Mm-hmm. You know, the, the reflected waveform and, you know, tr traditionally, you know, brachial, uh, uh, systolic is usually higher than central systolic, uh, pressures.

Mm-hmm. I mean, that's just a, uh, a nature of um, um, physiology. And systolic pressure increases and really diastolic pressure normally decreases, um, from the aorta through to the peripheral arteries. So there's a lot, a lot going on, the wave of reflection, um, your level of arterial stiffness. Um, so this is why we have to sort of look at a whole suite of parameters.

For example, your augmentation indexes may be high, but your central pressures, uh. May normal, and there's a psych, uh, physiological reason for that, um, which we explain in, in the app, in your cardiovascular report if that presents itself. Same with pulse pressures. So, um, the important thing is not to be fixated on your, on your brachial pressures, which can, you know, change on a, you know, uh, an hourly, you know, basis and, you know, day-to-day.

The important thing is trend lines based on more predictive central pressures, which are more indicative. Of cardiovascular risk and all end, uh, cause mortality, um, not just from the perspective of cardiovascular disease, but for vascular diseases of the brain of the kidney. Um, if you are pregnant, for example, your, uh, potential for, uh, maternal, uh, uh, uh, hypertensive disorder of pregnancy.

Mm-hmm. Most, uh, specifically, uh, preeclampsia. Mm-hmm. So. That's really where we're trying to get people to think and, you know, 'cause that we make fun of it. You know, you don't die of an arm attack, you, you know, die of a heart attack. So you really should be measuring

MK: right.

Craig Cooper: Where that, where that counts.

MK: Right, right. Um, I read the other day, I don't know where it was that maybe 50 years ago our, what was considered normal blood pressure is, was different than what it is today and I've seen the same. With many other, like, you know, normal testosterone ranges, you know, they kept going or keep, you know, getting lower and lower and lower because the average in a population that testosterone levels a man at least has, you know, been dropping and dropping and dropping.

Now, you know, normal range, in optimal range are two different things in, in many cases. Right. How do you see that with blood pressure? Is it really, is there a major concern if you are. Central blood pressure is, you know, maybe on the higher end, what would be considered normal, even though it was maybe normal 50?

Well, I don't know that we measured central blood pressure 50 years ago, but, you know, back in the days. Um, have you seen that shift in, in normal ranges and what's your take on that?

Craig Cooper: Yeah, central sir, uh, remain pretty standard. Brachial shifted around a little bit just in accordance with a MA guidelines, but I get it, like testosterone is, you know, I think we both have sort of.

Uh, you know, similar sort of athletic, uh, loads and, um, and, uh, you know, testosterone is a huge sort of biomarker that we both follow. I mean, we have, you know, our levels today, epigenetically are, you know, 20% less than our fathers at the same age, so, mm-hmm. You know, it's a, it's, it's kind of an epidemic. You know, a lot of it could be, you know, transgenerational epigenetics, so that could be reflected both, you know, from the point of view of our hormones as well as from the perspective of our, of our vascular health.

Um, and, you know, we also see the impact of toxins and, uh, and mold exposure, uh, you know, environmental toxins and so on and so forth. So all these things are sort of floating around and sort of, you know, percolating through to the. The, the medical authorities who set these guidelines, but that's a, that's a slow drip, right?

Mm-hmm. By the time it gets to that level where, um, ranges are actually being considered and, and modified because of, you know, things like we're talking about from a lifestyle and genetic perspective, um, you know, it can often be too late. So my, my, uh, life has always been about being ahead of the curve, right?

Taking control of my own health. Best technology, um, best, uh, care team and you know, so what we're doing with our device, we are not, you know, we are not, um, you know, pushing the emergency button when things go out of range. But what we are doing is saying, uh, irrespective of what your break your pressures are.

This suite of parameters saying you need attention.

extra: Right.

Craig Cooper: So, um, uh, either, you know, currently, um, artery score test or a calcification score test, um, or an echo or whatever that might like, might be, we don't want, we don't wanna have a population like we have at the moment where everyone's just sitting on their hands when they've got, you know, high normal blood pressure and don't think they need to do anything.

Mm-hmm. Um. We believe that being proactive, uh, particularly in respect of the world's number one killer, is really, um, you know, part of a, you know, significant part of a healthy lifestyle. And it really should be part of everyone's health protocol. Um, you know, a pressure machine in everybody's house. Um, everyone testing.

On a consistent basis, not just something you do in, you know, every six months when you go to a physician.

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People need to take their own health, you know, in under control and, and be more proactive and, and knowledgeable. At the end of the day. Don't just trust what your doctor, you know, tells you. I mean, I think this is a little bit of a, of a, kind of a dicey topic because I'm very much, I, I don't. Believe anyone, doesn't matter what degree or Title a person has, because most of it based on my experience is bs, right?

Or Half Truths or, or lacking nuance and context. And so I like to find out for myself, um. At the same time, there are still a lot of people who just trust what the person in a white coat says, right? A hundred percent. It's, it's, it's true or not, but with devices like, like yours, where I can take, I, I, I can measure significantly better what my cardiovascular health is then if I went to my doctor, right?

Simply because if they use old technology, I have newer technology. How do you see this evolve in the future, in the next five to 10 years? Is, is something like this and then all of the other things that we, you know, now we can, you know, get our blood work by just signing up someone online. Someone comes to the house and I get like a blood panel significantly more, um, detailed and less expensive than I would get if I went to my doctor.

What do we need doctors for? I mean, is this kind of replacing your, your primary care or cardiologist? Um, at least from a. Uh, prevention perspective and detection perspective. What's your take on that?

Craig Cooper: It's funny, I just got back from, uh, the Global Health Forum in New York this weekend, and it was kind of 90% MDs and.

The week before I was at the health conference in Las Vegas and it was kind of 90%, um, you know, wellness entrepreneurs and, you know, and wellness physicians, functional medicine doctors. Mm-hmm. And I mean, it couldn't be, it couldn't be more of a, um, of a, you know, of a, a, a, a bizarro universe in terms of going, you know, from one to the other.

You know, on one hand, on the doctors this weekend, we had, you know, a number of sessions on AI and, and healthcare and the role of the primary care physician. They kind of be, seem to be living in a, in another world, Michael, they can't really see what's coming. It was just, you know, I'm sitting in my seat thinking of, uh, my namesake Martin Cooper.

Who's not a relation to me, but he was the, uh, CTO at, at Motorola and back in the eighties when they first started developing mobile phones, uh, Michael, who was in charge of the program. Um, told basically the world that this is gonna be a very niche business and they're only gonna sell a hundred thousand units.

So, you know, why should they, why should they focus on it? I'm just sitting in the audience just thinking, yeah. I just, um, I can just see this whole crowd just being run over in the next five years. And look, that's not all MDs, but I mean, really there's a disconnect between Yeah, the traditional primary care physician.

This whole new, you know, um, whole new paradigm of health, which is, uh, part health at home with devices like ours and, you know, into a, a less medical perspective or a, um, you know, WHOOP, uh, continuous glucose monitors. I would obviously put in the same basket as what we're doing. There's this whole new, um, uh, sort of diagnostic, preventative, uh, care, um, protocol that's being developed, um, with all the functional medicine doctors, um, all the influences, the, the certified licensed ones.

Mm-hmm. Um, and the ability to, um, basically have, uh, health at home, everything from. Blood tests to, you know, blood pressure monitoring. Um, AI is a huge part of that, obviously, I just discovered two weeks ago outside of the, um, of my primary care physician who ordered the lab tests for me, um, and who had had the opportunity to review them before I put them into chat GPT that I had, uh, hemochromatosis.

Mm-hmm. Uh, and I was the carrier of that gene. Which is kind of a significant thing, which my primary care physician didn't pick up.

extra: Mm-hmm.

Craig Cooper: And, you know, I pretty much diagnosed myself then I ordered separate lab tests for myself in order to confirm it, you know, and so on and so forth. So it's absolutely moving, moving that way.

And I think the medical profession is just, um, they're scared, but, you know, Peter Atia was on 60 Minutes last, um, week or a couple of weeks ago. And they asked him, you know, what do you say to, you know, all your critics, um, about what you're doing? And he said, you know what he said when I was at Stanford, there was not a single medical, uh, not a single course in nutrition.

Not a single course in, you know, exercise physiology. I'm thinking these are the same people who went to school, you know, when I did. So, you know, I don't know where their criticism's coming because none of that generation is educated in it. Mm-hmm. And really like everyone's learning still. Yeah. You know, the huberman, the aters, all these people, they're all just, they all started this five years ago.

extra: Yeah. This

Craig Cooper: is not something they've been doing for their whole lives. Yeah. You know, we're all learning. But there's one school that is very, uh, sort of function forward in terms of health. There's another one, which is really just caught in the grip. Of the existing medical system and the economics and everything that surrounds that.

Mm-hmm.

MK: Yeah. The, the problem that I see is, you know, obviously, you know, a lot of the establishment, you know, they say, oh, everything that that happens outside of their realm is, is scam. And, and, and yeah, of course have truth and, and fake news and whatnot. Um. And then on the other side, you know, if there are people who completely lost trust in, in the regular, you know, system, which I don't think is, is also good, you know, because you need a, you need to trust someone, you know, you cannot trust trusted guy on the Of course.

Yeah. Even, you know, I mean, I, I've been following a lot of the, you know, Atia and, you know, and saladino more from a nutrition perspective. Most of them have, have done a 180 on certain things. Where they were so sure that something a hundred percent And then they are fasting. They, yeah, they learned or got a different perspective and then, you know, they changed.

So I think that the problem release or the frustration is for many regular consumers that who do you trust? Yeah. And, and what do you do? You know? And. And so that's where I see a little bit, you know, the, the problem. Because you cannot just trust the guy on the internet blindly because you don't know that person.

And for the most part, you know, and you unfortunately cannot trust your doctor either because you know that they have no clue when it comes to nutrition, access, physiology, all of the things that, you know, I know more about than my doctor. So why would I go to my doctor and ask about, you know, my blood lipids?

Exactly. And nothing they can tell me is, is relevant. Yeah. You know, and so, yeah. That, that's a problem. You know, and, and not everyone has the time or desire or, or both to dig in and, and do their own research and keep learning because it is you, you feel like you are almost like you, you do nothing else than, than trying to figure stuff out that someone should get paid for, you know, to figure out and just let me know what to do, you know?

Craig Cooper: Yeah. And look, the base, the baseline of, uh, wellness, functional medicine and longevity. It's publicly available. You know, you can listen to a three hour Peter Atia podcast. You don't have to pay $250,000 a year to get on his wait list. Right? And there is so much information out there across, you know, sort of a, a sort of a thin line of, of credible doctors.

But I, I did a fireside chat on the main stage at the, a Global Health conference and, um, about longevity trends, insights in the future. One of the big things that I was emphasizing was just affordability and accessibility. Mm-hmm. Because, you know, health is still the preserve of the wealthy. Um, it's across all socioeconomic indicators and, you know, we just have to be careful that we are not, um, you know, expanding that gap, um, by, um, by creating the impression that in order to be healthy.

You have to have, you know, a, you know, a concierge medicine doctor, you have to do an MRIA thousand dollars MRI $500 functional tests. You know, when I was researching that, you know, shocking metric was that 59% of American adults don't have a thousand dollars in savings. Yeah. So, you know, we're calling, you know, for, you know, longevity protocols, which they were at the health conference two weeks before.

Gentleman up on stage, very well known. Just like being very confident in the fact that, you know, he doesn't understand why everyone isn't doing, you know, uh, full body scans. It's like, because we can't afford it.

extra: Right?

Craig Cooper: Yeah. It's like there's a huge, uh, issue of affordability in longevity and functional medicine.

So I think what we, the, I mean, the hope we have is that, you know, devices like ours are affordable. Um, lifestyle changes are free. Diet is free, exercise is free. So the foundational aspects of wellness and longevity are accessible to everyone. But I think the missing part of all of that. Is education and compliance.

Michael, you know, it's, it's there, but it's hard.

MK: Yeah. What I've learned, and I, I've, I've also applied this, or we've been applying this to, to our lives here at the Kummer house, is that, you know, it's very easy to get caught up in, in the biohacking, you know, longevity. Where there is a gadget, there is a pill, there is a supplement, there is this and that for.

You know, if you just look at, you know, if I would film a day with all of the biohacking gadgets that I have access to as part of my reads, you know, be it the red light on a, I would be doing nothing else than using those products, you know? Right. And I'm, I, I don't have time, you know, or the desire, you know, to do all of those things.

I mean, what to what point? Right. Or what? And and they've come to realize that what you really wanna do is. Just go back to the basics. You know, it's, I think the, the main problem that we have in our modern society is that we want to live this ultramodern life while at the same time holding on to the ancestral health framework that humans have been enjoying for a very long time.

Before we had blue light blocking glasses and red light therapy panels and continuous glucose monitors, we didn't need them because our lifestyle prevented us from doing a lot of stupid things. Exactly, so, and, and so I think that's really the, the, where it can get very inexpensive. If you actually do less and really focus on, okay, hey, instead of paying for, you know, an expensive CrossFit, you know, membership, why not just, you know, walk or bike and lift heavy stuff and park far away from your grocery store, you know?

Yeah. Entrance. So you have to carry all of that heavy stuff back instead of using the car and then going to the gym and doing farmer's carry and paying for that. I mean, that's ridiculous, you know? And so I think, I love my

Craig Cooper: farmer's Carries by the way. Yeah.

MK: Yes. So do I. But you know, I've come to realize that if I just don't take the cart, but hold all onto the back, oh, I do it all the time.

You know, 200 meters, that's, that's a good workout, you know, and it's free or taking the stairs instead of the elevator. And we've just become so at the end of day lazy and, and suckers for convenience that we. That we then have the need to mitigate all of our stupid decisions with gadgets and with interventions.

Craig Cooper: Totally. I mean, I take it the next level. I laugh, you know, when you know to people about, you know, we don't even, you know, have to walk out to our letter boxes anymore to get our mail or our packages, you know, 'cause everything is just put, you know, on our front steps, you know, in Yeah. You know, in two hours.

Or we don't even wind down the windows on our,

extra: on our

Craig Cooper: cars anymore. I mean, what's it gonna be next? Right? Are we just gonna be like, you know, in wheelchairs. Even those basic movements, right?

extra: Yeah. It's

Craig Cooper: just, I mean, you know, no one in the blue zones to your point, goes to CrossFit or, um, you know, or on keto, uh, or taking that supplements.

MK: Yeah, yeah. There was, you know, the whole, you know, keto and, and, and, and what to eat kind of thing. I'm like, if you really, if you just eat what's growing around you during the season. There is your diet. You know, you're not gonna be eating strawberries in winter. You're probably gonna be on a fairly low carb diet in winter because nothing is growing and you'll probably, depending on where you live, have more carbs in summer.

Right? When yeah, there's fruits and vegetables and you love that. I mean, you know, and it can be so simple, but it's, it's inconvenient to think that way, you know, because it's how we, we, we operate in our modern lives. And I think that's, that's the big. You know, disconnect and, and where people think it's, oh, I can't afford to be healthy.

Well, you, you can, you just have to accept a little bit or a lot of inconvenience and, you know, do things differently.

Craig Cooper: Yeah, totally. Yeah. I kind of feel like the whole longevity market's just been hijacked. Um, and I think, you know, Instagram's a big part of it, right? Yeah. Um, you know, it's perfectly made for Instagram, all the memes, the bodies, the protocols, the events, the lifestyles and everything like that.

But. My, my view on longevity is much different. I've had so many near death experiences that, you know, I think, you know, just like, uh, very sort of memento Maori, uh, way that, you know, I could leave life, you know, at any moment. So, maximizing every day, maximizing, you know, my physical, mental, emotional, um, you know, sexual fitness, um, every day.

And, you know, that's not about. Wanting to live to, uh, you know, 150, like Dave Asprey thinks he will or don't die. Like, you know, Brian Johnson, this is like, I think they're giving up a lot of life. Think he

MK: is already there. The boy hero.

Craig Cooper: Yeah, exactly. But I think they're giving up a lot of life for the sake of longevity without focusing on, you know, the moment.

So yeah, you know, we've got, you know, all the red light therapy, uh, you know, uh, plunge pool crowd, which is kind of the millennial crowd. But then, you know, my age group, you know, and I'm 62, so. I am focused more about, you know, avoiding frailty, um, you know, strengths, muscle mass balance, um, um, and, you know, really making sure I don't fall, you know, all those things that, um, you know, are gonna see me through, uh, a period and allow me to thrive and do what I love doing in, in sports and everything.

Um, and then also importantly, just avoiding disease because I think, you know, when you're a millennial, you're kind of. Bulletproof, right? You don't have to think about, you know, colon cancer and prostate cancer and other me metabolic disorders. It's just like, oh, that's old people's problems. So I think these are the, that's kind of the, the disconnects.

So I'm hoping that longevity will just be sort of absorbed. 'cause I, I kind of think we're in peak longevity now. Mm-hmm. And I'm, I'm hoping. Just like, you know, whether it's all these other crazies, whether, not so much crazies, but you know, Mediterranean diet, keto, all these just become part of our normal functional lifestyles.

So it's not like a thing or a trend or anything. It just becomes really normal. Right? Yeah. That that's what we're all trying to do, optimize our health. Not health span lifespan, just optimizing our health.

MK: Yeah, yeah. No, I, I, I totally agree. So what is it, you know, beside taking care of your, your blood pressure that you do specifically?

You mentioned, you know, you, you, so you lift weight, you work on balance, is what I hear. Um, yeah. I do a lot of

Craig Cooper: weights. So I, I train, I weight train pretty much every day. Um, I try and alternate a sort of cardiovascular, um. Uh, session every second day, mountain biking, uh, maybe doing some vo two max sprints on the beach.

Um, hiking with my wife, but really weight training, uh, I kind of try and do it every day. Mm-hmm. Um, I do a lot of swimming now, even though, you know, it's not good for my bones, but I've been doing some ultra distance swimming. I just finished, um, swimming the length of the English Channel in Greece. Last month.

So I swam around an island in Greece. Um, so I just want, I just keep moving is the message. Michael. You know, we've got all these longevity indicators that, um, uh, you know, Dr. Gabriel Leon, muscle Mass, you know, David Sinclair, insulin resistance, um, Dr. Dr. Amon, you know, pickleball is the greatest predictor of longevity, right.

extra: Andrew

Craig Cooper: Huberman. Andrew, Andrew Huberman, muscle Mass, Peter Atia, I think VO two max. There is no one thing, right? So, you know, there's just a lot of things, but the number one most studied thing is, um, you know, based on the NHANES study with NIH, which came out last year, um, 25,000 people over, over a, you know, 15 year period is movement, right?

Mm-hmm. To your point, you know, for I'm the same, you know, I don't drive to Whole Foods. I'll walk there and I'll carry two, you know, 15 pound, it's not heavy, but ways up over a. Um, back to back home. Everything is a movement throughout the day of some form. So that's what I try and incorporate. Um, and, uh, you know, I think that's, if we can at least start there, then, you know, that's a great start.

MK: Yeah, no, I, I, I totally agree. Um. So let's maybe circle back to the connect device, uh, a little bit. Uh, so it's available to consumers. Anyone can buy it online, as suppose you said. So you go to.

Craig Cooper: Yeah. Thanks. Uh, thanks for, uh, highlighting that, Michael. You can go to connect health.com. That's C-O-N-N-E qt uh, health.com.

Connect health.com. It's an RX device, so it needs a prescription, but that happens seamlessly behind the scenes when you order, it's instantaneously, it's taken care of by our telehealth provider. So it's just like checking out on Amazon and, um, uh, you know, uh, you'll get it shipped within, you know, within the hour.

And, you know, as you say, when you get it, it's a very, um, very, you know, intuitive, friendly process to get you set up. It's all, uh, driven by our, um. Our app, which takes you through the process. And then, um, you know, you are, you are set for a, you know, period of, uh, self-monitoring and your reports and assessments and you know, really managing and monitoring what's the, the number one driver of disease.

So, um, so yes, available. Now it's, we started selling in February this year. But as I said, you know, it's interesting you pointed out before about doctors, um. You know, this, this technology is so far ahead of MDs. Mm-hmm. Right? Even though it's been in, you know, 60 clinical trials and it been used by cardiologists since, you know, uh, since 20, uh, since the year 2000 actually.

Mm-hmm. Um, you go and most of the, well, I wouldn't say most, we. Do get comments back. You know, I took it to my cardiologist. He said, you know, I don't need to worry about those parameters. And we said, okay, fine. Why don't we just send you a PDF to take to him next time? And more often than not, they come back again and say, actually, my doctor finds this really interesting and is super glad that I'm, that I'm using this.

So, um. Uh, yeah, it's, um, $249, um, on Connect health.com. Uh, so remember, this was a $35,000 device. Mm-hmm. Uh, now at 2 49 for consumers. So, um, that's, uh, that's the opportunity.

MK: All right. Uh, that's, I mean, you know, it, it, it doesn't get any better than that to get really an, an accurate reading. And it, it, you know, it helped me better understand that actually, I mean.

In, in as good shape as I think I am. Um, so that, that was good confirmation and that my, you know, my, my, uh, elasticity or lack of stiffness. I, you know, I had done a calcium score scans and all of those things in the past, um, and they all were, you know, clean. So that's kind of was another. Way of confirming that whatever I'm doing appears to be working and I can continue doing that until I figure out I have to change something.

Um, and yeah, I, you know, I, I'm, we gonna try to include in some screen just so people I can actually see the app. Yeah. Awesome. How it works. Yeah. And then some b roll, uh, of me using the device. But yeah, I appreciate that time.

Craig Cooper: Of course. Let me close with just, uh, two comments on what you said. Um, uh, because you are the perfect use case, because you know, part of what we are doing with the device is putting it at home so people can ask the question and get it answered.

Am I okay? Right? Mm-hmm. That's really, if we solve that in the home, then that's a success for us. Yeah. And you mentioned, uh, uh, CAC scores and calcium scores. I mean, the, the sort of dirty little secret around that, you know, billion dollar market. Is that, uh, calcification only is able to be detected when it's too late to reverse.

Mm. Calcification is not something you can reverse.

extra: Yeah. So

Craig Cooper: what CAC scores are picking up is damage already done. Mm-hmm. So the, the alternate opportunity is to get ahead of that with measuring arterial stiffness and other parameters. Which are all drivers of calcification. Mm-hmm. So we can, we can detect the risk of calcification, you know, a year to three years in advance of that happening.

extra: Mm-hmm.

Craig Cooper: Before it's too late

extra: Right. When

Craig Cooper: you get to your CAC score. So

extra: yeah.

Craig Cooper: It's just, it's just so important, Michael, and I really, I appreciate you taking the time to elevate the conversation.

MK: Alright. No, I appreciate it, ed. Well, uh, with all the good information you've given us, I think that's, hopefully will, um, you know, e everyone understands better what blood pressure really means and how potentially useless, you know, that reading is that you might get once a year and why it's, I think, important to.

Keep an eye on trendlines. Right. For sure. It's not those for readings, much like with HRV, you want keep an eye on, on your trend line. Where are you're trending? Are you heading in the right direction or maybe not. And if not, then well now it's the time to do something about it before it's too late. Yeah.

Perfect. Alright. Alright Michael, thanks so much. Appreciate it. Great to see you. Alright, thanks. Bye-Bye.